Barbara, posting at the end of yesterday's comments seemed appropriate and perfect. Thank you for responding - it was with some relief that I read your words... write as often and as much as you like, stay with us...
Dale – how on earth do you know what you know so accurately when it is about me!?
Ruth – no it doesn’t make me afraid to practice – for me there is nothing more frightening than being locked in a place and to not be able to shift what keeps me there …and believe me I can and have (and do) stay locked in places for YEARS …so anything that shifts things is scary but welcome, and needed. And thanks for your words – I have read what you have said about your own fears in relation to death, your parents’ deaths, J’s parents’ deaths (and actually I share that one although obviously not any longer in the same way)and feel touched by your ability to respond anyway.
Brenda I love what you say here and at the same time I feel I struggle with the paradox you describe in your first comment and can only grasp the tips of feeling and thought about why that is …perhaps something to do with my natural tendency to veer towards the negative pole …but I will need to hold that in my awareness for a while before getting clearer.
Beth – well yes, what you have written here recently about your mother’s death has contributed something to my experiences – and I welcome it!! I do …not just that you are also talking of the things that don’t get talked about much …but all of it. It is not something I wish to bury – I do enough of that and in such a forgetful way too that it is positively a boon to have it shuggled about by someone else’s words, someone else’s different experience …
There are so many things to say to all of you and yet I am struggling to get them down on paper just now – maybe they are not ready to be said, or this is not the only place to say them …all of your responses to me yesterday remain really powerfully touching for me …and I sort of want to reassure those who are concerned about my grieving that in many ways I am through a good deal of it and must confess that – despite the trauma – quite a short time (like, DAYS – I couldn’t tell my brother that!) after Mum’s death I felt a sense of liberation. And some of this was attached not to the relationship itself but to the fact that she was the second parent to die. I’m sure – or at least hopeful – that there will come a time when I not only feel liberated but can appreciate that my parents did the best they could and be glad they existed. Just now the sharper grief for me is one I can’t identify except in a speculative way (not something I find terribly useful – my head always leads me astray!) – I do know however that it is old, relating to the time when I was very young. This is where I am finding my new ‘commitment’ to practice a real help – it is beginning to free thoughts and feelings that are different to those that are usual for me …I’m glad I spoke – I feel very suddenly met and held in the arms of this group. Thank you.
Barbara, I'm glad you wrote too, and thank you for reassuring me a little too. I also feel liberated by my mother's death in some ways - some not so small ways, really. I'm trying not to let those feelings be accompanied by guilt. So much of this stuff is very complicated. I think of myself as being pretty in touch with my feelings and able to sort through the layers fairly uickly, but I *know* I am nowhere near that yet with this event. It's just too big. That doesn't mean being overwhelmed with grief - just like you say about your own grieving process. But it's so layered, and goes back so far - right to the very beginning. We spend our lives seeking unconditional love from our mothers, and almost as much (in my case, anyway) seeking separation and individuation - so the severing of that relationship forEVER is bound to be huge. I do hope you'll write more here and feel comfortable talking about these things. It's not something I expected when I started coming here, but I'm really grateful for the way we all seem to be opening up to larger issues than just meditation itself.
'going back to the very beginning': when we lost our child i went back to when i first had dolls in terms of conditioning about what a life 'should' be. it's big stuff. I guess I will be grieving forever, but hopefully more and more creatively? Who knows? When the grandchildren are cmonig to my friends will there be a whole nother round??? i suppose so. I guess we just have to be open to moving through it all.
It feels very warm round here. So good to know you feel supported Barbara. And so good to have discussions like this. I love the thing in Buddhism about debate; about no-one being wrong or right but about an enquiring mind based in loving kindness.
4 Comments:
Barbara, posting at the end of yesterday's comments seemed appropriate and perfect. Thank you for responding - it was with some relief that I read your words... write as often and as much as you like, stay with us...
Much love to you.
Much love to everyone.
Dale – how on earth do you know what you know so accurately when it is about me!?
Ruth – no it doesn’t make me afraid to practice – for me there is nothing more frightening than being locked in a place and to not be able to shift what keeps me there …and believe me I can and have (and do) stay locked in places for YEARS …so anything that shifts things is scary but welcome, and needed. And thanks for your words – I have read what you have said about your own fears in relation to death, your parents’ deaths, J’s parents’ deaths (and actually I share that one although obviously not any longer in the same way)and feel touched by your ability to respond anyway.
Brenda I love what you say here and at the same time I feel I struggle with the paradox you describe in your first comment and can only grasp the tips of feeling and thought about why that is …perhaps something to do with my natural tendency to veer towards the negative pole …but I will need to hold that in my awareness for a while before getting clearer.
Beth – well yes, what you have written here recently about your mother’s death has contributed something to my experiences – and I welcome it!! I do …not just that you are also talking of the things that don’t get talked about much …but all of it. It is not something I wish to bury – I do enough of that and in such a forgetful way too that it is positively a boon to have it shuggled about by someone else’s words, someone else’s different experience …
There are so many things to say to all of you and yet I am struggling to get them down on paper just now – maybe they are not ready to be said, or this is not the only place to say them …all of your responses to me yesterday remain really powerfully touching for me …and I sort of want to reassure those who are concerned about my grieving that in many ways I am through a good deal of it and must confess that – despite the trauma – quite a short time (like, DAYS – I couldn’t tell my brother that!) after Mum’s death I felt a sense of liberation. And some of this was attached not to the relationship itself but to the fact that she was the second parent to die. I’m sure – or at least hopeful – that there will come a time when I not only feel liberated but can appreciate that my parents did the best they could and be glad they existed. Just now the sharper grief for me is one I can’t identify except in a speculative way (not something I find terribly useful – my head always leads me astray!) – I do know however that it is old, relating to the time when I was very young. This is where I am finding my new ‘commitment’ to practice a real help – it is beginning to free thoughts and feelings that are different to those that are usual for me …I’m glad I spoke – I feel very suddenly met and held in the arms of this group. Thank you.
Barbara, I'm glad you wrote too, and thank you for reassuring me a little too. I also feel liberated by my mother's death in some ways - some not so small ways, really. I'm trying not to let those feelings be accompanied by guilt. So much of this stuff is very complicated. I think of myself as being pretty in touch with my feelings and able to sort through the layers fairly uickly, but I *know* I am nowhere near that yet with this event. It's just too big. That doesn't mean being overwhelmed with grief - just like you say about your own grieving process. But it's so layered, and goes back so far - right to the very beginning. We spend our lives seeking unconditional love from our mothers, and almost as much (in my case, anyway) seeking separation and individuation - so the severing of that relationship forEVER is bound to be huge. I do hope you'll write more here and feel comfortable talking about these things. It's not something I expected when I started coming here, but I'm really grateful for the way we all seem to be opening up to larger issues than just meditation itself.
beth and barbara,
'going back to the very beginning': when we lost our child i went back to when i first had dolls in terms of conditioning about what a life 'should' be. it's big stuff. I guess I will be grieving forever, but hopefully more and more creatively? Who knows? When the grandchildren are cmonig to my friends will there be a whole nother round??? i suppose so. I guess we just have to be open to moving through it all.
It feels very warm round here. So good to know you feel supported Barbara. And so good to have discussions like this. I love the thing in Buddhism about debate; about no-one being wrong or right but about an enquiring mind based in loving kindness.
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