A lovely sit at the sangha last night. Most people are away on retreat, so I subbed as umze and there was no Q&A period -- just the hour's sit, the candles and the flowers and the bell. I've gotten cranky about the Q&A sessions. I never mind new people's questions, but I tire of the old people who having been asking the same questions (more or less lightly disguised) over and over for years. It always seems to me to boil down to a request to the teacher, not just to teach them, but to walk the path for them. & not even the Buddha could do that. (Yes, this is largely headache crankiness and not terribly compassionate.)
I'm not sure whether this is standard Buddhist or just the Tibetan take, Mary, but our orthodox position is that there aren't different kinds of consciousness. Mind is mind, it's essentially empty, luminous, and unimpeded, and it's basically the same whether it's a mosquito's or a dog's or yours or mine. So a cat's consciousness (& hence "person-ness") is only different from mine because it's under different conditions and because it has a different history.
I really hear what you are saying dale about those who want the teacher to walk the path for them. I know that well in myself. A need for eternal parenting where there was once a very painful emptiness....compassion is needed, yes, but also straight talk. the latter helped me (partnered with the former).
I didn't sit today. There was a need to be together with J at the time I was planning to do it and, after yesterday, I happily chose to go with that need. It was no moment to abandon my partner and it was the right thing to do. No regrets. Will sit again tomorrow.
There is no doubt in my mind that our cats are souls. I even think one of them may be the soul of the child we lost. However, not sure about the chicken stuffed with wild thyme we are about to eat....I felt soul connection to the plane trees and the poplars and the vines on my run - a quality of aliveness and kinship.
Will I have to start being a vegetarian? Are you guys all vegetarians?????
No, I'm not a vegetarian at all. Not even any tendencies that way :-)
Actually I would like to be a vegetarian. I've tried to quit eating meat a couple of times and not done well with it -- I get wobbly and disoriented and cravy, even when I'm careful about protein and iron and so forth. Presumably that would pass eventually, but I've never managed to keep it up. But anyway -- Tibetan Buddhism doesn't impose any dietary restrictions -- possibly because so many Tibetans live up in high pasture-land where a vegetarian diet would be really hard to pull off. The taboos against killing are still in place, so the town butcher is ordinarily a Muslim (this seems ridiculous to me -- how can you duck bad karma by getting someone else to do it for you? Now you've got the bad karma both of the killing and of encouraging someone else to accumulate bad karma, I'd think.)
I dunno, Buddhism traditionally draws the line between animal and plant, but of course we know now that that line is highly arbitrary, and there are supposed "animals" (i.e. viruses) on the wrong side of it. My personal rule of thumb is that if it wiggles when you poke it, it's a sentient being, and I try not to injure it, or at the very least not to injure it thoughtlessly. I try to be mindful when I eat meat of the animals it came from. Whether that's a consolation to the cows and chickens that have been killed for me, I don't know.
Thanks, Dale. The question of sentience is precisely how I became unvegetarian. I couldn't find a dividing line, so said screw it, I'll eat everything, with mindfulness and gratitude. That was a decision I made years ago, rather impetuously, after the studies of how plants responded to Mozart etc., but I haven't changed back. I'm afraid laziness is a factor, too.
I suppose that phrase, "vegetarian tendencies" is laughable. And perhaps offensive. But it's true in a certain light. I don't eat a huge amount of meat and my old vegetarian habits are not completely gone.
I used to be vegetarian, and I still tend to be meat-free when I cook for myself. (I wouldn't know what to do, for instance, with a steak...)
But life intervenes with our best wishes. When I'm at restaurants, or eating with friends, or even simply in a rush, it's easier NOT to be vegetarian. I basically have Lazy Tendencies. :-)
Gosh, I do miss you guys and am overwhelmed by how interesting and lovely you are after a few days away! Not been anywhere, no, just feeling too ill with terrible cold or flu even to read or switch the computer on. Erk. Yuk. Wheeze. Snuffle. Feeling a bit better this morning (Tuesday).
I have been sitting a bit, though not for very long as I got too tired to sit up or just
Hope everyone else is feeling better: Dale, Lorianne, Mary's cat...
Very interesting discussion about partners who do and don't meditate. And very wise conclusions. I once had a partner who said he couldn't pray/ meditate/do yoga with me in the room because he was too aware of me... possibly has something to do with why I grew into a hermit... all the cliches about taking responsibility for ourselves, giving others freedom, so true, so simple, take so long to learn...
Lately, a good friend started meditation classes after we had talked a lot about it. She didn't get along with it, gave them up, and looked very shifty when she told me. And another friend keeps asking me for info, but I would never push them. I first had a housemate who meditated nearly 30 years ago, and was attracted to it then, but it took another 25 years before I got around to doing it. These things are mysterious and have their own time.
These things are mysterious and have their own time.
That's so true, Jean.
It's good to see you here again; hope you continue to feel better.
I'm not vegetarian, although, like Dale, I've tried. Iit doesn't seem to work for my body and it wouldn't work in our household; if I were cooking just for myself I'd eat more vegetarian meals. I try to be aware and grateful for everything I eat, including the plants. Biologically, it's persuasive to me that we are clearly adapted to be able to eat meat; we are omnivores. How much we eat and how we think of it is a clear choice, though...
10 Comments:
A lovely sit at the sangha last night. Most people are away on retreat, so I subbed as umze and there was no Q&A period -- just the hour's sit, the candles and the flowers and the bell. I've gotten cranky about the Q&A sessions. I never mind new people's questions, but I tire of the old people who having been asking the same questions (more or less lightly disguised) over and over for years. It always seems to me to boil down to a request to the teacher, not just to teach them, but to walk the path for them. & not even the Buddha could do that. (Yes, this is largely headache crankiness and not terribly compassionate.)
I'm not sure whether this is standard Buddhist or just the Tibetan take, Mary, but our orthodox position is that there aren't different kinds of consciousness. Mind is mind, it's essentially empty, luminous, and unimpeded, and it's basically the same whether it's a mosquito's or a dog's or yours or mine. So a cat's consciousness (& hence "person-ness") is only different from mine because it's under different conditions and because it has a different history.
Oops, I see I posted this morning under yesterday.
Dale, you do sound cranky. I'm sorry. It's no fun feeling that way. I'm glad you had a good sit. Headache, still?
So where does Mind stop - at what level of being? Plants? Rocks? Or not at all?
mmm I am loving you all...
I really hear what you are saying dale about those who want the teacher to walk the path for them. I know that well in myself. A need for eternal parenting where there was once a very painful emptiness....compassion is needed, yes, but also straight talk. the latter helped me (partnered with the former).
I didn't sit today. There was a need to be together with J at the time I was planning to do it and, after yesterday, I happily chose to go with that need. It was no moment to abandon my partner and it was the right thing to do. No regrets. Will sit again tomorrow.
There is no doubt in my mind that our cats are souls. I even think one of them may be the soul of the child we lost. However, not sure about the chicken stuffed with wild thyme we are about to eat....I felt soul connection to the plane trees and the poplars and the vines on my run - a quality of aliveness and kinship.
Will I have to start being a vegetarian? Are you guys all vegetarians?????
eeek.
I just have vegetarian tendencies.
Dale/Lorianne: very helpful explanations. Much to think about ...thank you. Hope the headache is better, Dale.
Moose, welcome back!
Yes, Ruth, vegetarian tendencies as well here. But I'm pretty sure vegetarianism isn't a requirement in order to meditate. :-)
Sat this morning, didn't allow enough time before work, but still did 10-15 minutes.
No, I'm not a vegetarian at all. Not even any tendencies that way :-)
Actually I would like to be a vegetarian. I've tried to quit eating meat a couple of times and not done well with it -- I get wobbly and disoriented and cravy, even when I'm careful about protein and iron and so forth. Presumably that would pass eventually, but I've never managed to keep it up. But anyway -- Tibetan Buddhism doesn't impose any dietary restrictions -- possibly because so many Tibetans live up in high pasture-land where a vegetarian diet would be really hard to pull off. The taboos against killing are still in place, so the town butcher is ordinarily a Muslim (this seems ridiculous to me -- how can you duck bad karma by getting someone else to do it for you? Now you've got the bad karma both of the killing and of encouraging someone else to accumulate bad karma, I'd think.)
I dunno, Buddhism traditionally draws the line between animal and plant, but of course we know now that that line is highly arbitrary, and there are supposed "animals" (i.e. viruses) on the wrong side of it. My personal rule of thumb is that if it wiggles when you poke it, it's a sentient being, and I try not to injure it, or at the very least not to injure it thoughtlessly. I try to be mindful when I eat meat of the animals it came from. Whether that's a consolation to the cows and chickens that have been killed for me, I don't know.
Thanks, Dale. The question of sentience is precisely how I became unvegetarian. I couldn't find a dividing line, so said screw it, I'll eat everything, with mindfulness and gratitude. That was a decision I made years ago, rather impetuously, after the studies of how plants responded to Mozart etc., but I haven't changed back. I'm afraid laziness is a factor, too.
I suppose that phrase, "vegetarian tendencies" is laughable. And perhaps offensive. But it's true in a certain light. I don't eat a huge amount of meat and my old vegetarian habits are not completely gone.
I used to be vegetarian, and I still tend to be meat-free when I cook for myself. (I wouldn't know what to do, for instance, with a steak...)
But life intervenes with our best wishes. When I'm at restaurants, or eating with friends, or even simply in a rush, it's easier NOT to be vegetarian. I basically have Lazy Tendencies. :-)
Gosh, I do miss you guys and am overwhelmed by how interesting and lovely you are after a few days away! Not been anywhere, no, just feeling too ill with terrible cold or flu even to read or switch the computer on. Erk. Yuk. Wheeze. Snuffle. Feeling a bit better this morning (Tuesday).
I have been sitting a bit, though not for very long as I got too tired to sit up or just
Hope everyone else is feeling better: Dale, Lorianne, Mary's cat...
Very interesting discussion about partners who do and don't meditate. And very wise conclusions. I once had a partner who said he couldn't pray/ meditate/do yoga with me in the room because he was too aware of me... possibly has something to do with why I grew into a hermit... all the cliches about taking responsibility for ourselves, giving others freedom, so true, so simple, take so long to learn...
Lately, a good friend started meditation classes after we had talked a lot about it. She didn't get along with it, gave them up, and looked very shifty when she told me. And another friend keeps asking me for info, but I would never push them. I first had a housemate who meditated nearly 30 years ago, and was attracted to it then, but it took another 25 years before I got around to doing it. These things are mysterious and have their own time.
These things are mysterious and have their own time.
That's so true, Jean.
It's good to see you here again; hope you continue to feel better.
I'm not vegetarian, although, like Dale, I've tried. Iit doesn't seem to work for my body and it wouldn't work in our household; if I were cooking just for myself I'd eat more vegetarian meals. I try to be aware and grateful for everything I eat, including the plants. Biologically, it's persuasive to me that we are clearly adapted to be able to eat meat; we are omnivores. How much we eat and how we think of it is a clear choice, though...
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