Ruth, oh, what you write about is so difficult, the challenges and tragedies life throws at us, I don't think anyone makes it through unscathed. But the loss of your baby and, it seems from your comment yesterday, perhaps having children at all, what a difficult precipice emotionally. I nearly didn't have children, finally marrying and having them at 35 and 38. But I realized that we all need to have children in our lives, and if I hadn't been able to have any biologically I would have made sure to have children some other way- overseas foster child (did that before meeting my husband, who's now my ex), working with children in school (a man I met this Summer, who is a violinist, and his son, who is a painter, actually go to schools and play and paint for students- a kind of performance, everyone loves it and they even get paid by the school board), and being a fabulous "aunt" to as many children as possible. My great aunt Jessie didn't have children, but she was everyone's "mother," who everyone went to when they needed encouragement, understanding, clear love. There's always the possibility of adopting a child too...
Though none of that undoes the grieving inside...
My heart is with you, and you're in my meditation. Much love.
Colin, welcome! I'm afraid I don't feel qualified to respond to your question since I'm a relative newbie, too, but I'm sure someone here can and will. (Dale? Lorianne?)
((Mary)) I suspect that your 5-10 minutes is making a difference whether you see it or not. Progress continues while we continue the work. Sometimes it feels like two steps backward, but even that (IF it's the case) is part of the spiral of growth, I believe. Hang in there, friend!
Oh, Ruth, life throws some huge challenges sometimes. I say this while trying to learn how to accept the news I got last night that my friend's condition is beyond surgery. But your situation... I don't much care for meds, but I will say they have made a difference in my life. This time of year is particularly difficult for some. In my experience, resilience can wear down due to any number of factors, and the role meds play is as a support to increase that resilience a little so you can get back on your feet. Yes, there are other things that are very important: sleep, exercise, nutrition, loving social interaction, creative expression, and for me, meditation. Other small things like minimizing alcohol and coffee... It means searching for balance, but more than that, searching for tender loving care in/for every aspect of self so that you can be boosted back up. Also, there are many meds, and finding the right one can take a little time. But if it works, it works and the difference is worth it. No one deserves to feel miserable. Life is too short for that!!! (Yes, I just used three exclamation marks, and I meant it.)
I will add that the difference meditation has made for me seems to be not just in providing a sort of sanctuary (which it does) but also in training me to step away from my thoughts. Which is a skill that transfers over into daily life, enabling me to step away from my excessive ruminations or from my negative thoughts - not to hide feelings, that isn't helpful - but to then turn toward balanced feelings, gratitude, love, the present moment... Hope that makes sense.
thank you for all your words. I am feeling a bit guilty about having got a bit emotional here but your support has been so welcome.
I am very interested in the possibility that it does not have to be an either/or situation - medication or meditation - and that medication can support a change. I can get very black and white and moralistic about things and all you write really helps me see the different shades. Something will have to be done one day about our love/bordering on abuse of wine as we lead our lives in the middle of the cotes du rhone....
sat for 15. Have found a lovely place at work to sit before the concert. It helps to really tune in to my listening (to the darkness fold around me) and I'm sure it does wonders against stage fright.
Ruth, I expect that as in most things everyone is different. But my experience has been that it's not all or nothing, that the meds did support change and can be stopped. I have had to recognize some vulnerabilities, however, and have learned to take care of myself a little differently. I imagine that what that care entails might be different for everyone, to be explored, to be learned as you go. I have to say, it's worth it.
For me, what anti-depressants do and what meditation (shamatha in particular) does are very similar -- they make the spin of my thoughts a little less tight and obsessive. But I still have to intervene cognitively -- neither one will just "fix" depression; they'll just make it possible to work on it. If there's something wrong with a car engine, just opening the hood won't fix it. But it's awfully damn hard to fix it with the hood closed :-)
Some people have absurd expectations for how quickly a deep grief should subside -- I remember someone admitting, with some shame, that he wasn't yet quite over the grief at his wife's miscarriage, which had happened all of two weeks ago. I told him (kindly I hope) that he was an idiot to expect to be.
But -- having said that -- my guess is that Julian is dealing with depression, and it's likely that meds could help. It's important to take depression seriously and head it off. If someone once has a really serious, debilitating depression, they're much more likely to have recurrences. So it's really worth preventing a first one. Trust me, it's a road you don't want to go on.
Some caveats. Most physicians, and many counsellors and psychologists, know virtually nothing about this pharmacology, they'll essentially throw a random dose of a random drug at you and send you away and hope it works. (Maybe France is better than America this way, I don't know.) Some of the drugs have a long ramp-up time -- think weeks, rather than days -- and some are very risky to suddenly discontinue. Dosages are very tricky, and a bit of a moving target. What this means is that you have to be aggressive and experimental (exactly what depressed people are worst at -- taking initiative and objectively assessing their condition.) Try one thing at one dosage for a couple weeks, and observe what happens. If it doesn't work, try another drug, or a different dosage, for a few weeks. Never take more than the recommended maximums -- if they're not doing it, it's just the wrong drug, that's all.
I think that depression is basically a cognitive disorder, and that it requires some effort to interrupt its obsessive thought-patterns and its distortions of perception. Drugs & meditation will make that easier, but they won't do it for you.
Sorry to dump this huge comment on y'all. I'm indignant about how badly depression is usually treated. There's really quite a bit known about how to treat it, and it responds well to skillful treatment -- but skillful treatment is not what it usually gets.
Early this morning, on the way to wake up my daughter, I tripped on something on her floor, and fell like an ironing board straight back and hit the back of my head on the carpet. Although I began crying for a little bit, so melodramatic, and she jumped out of bed to hug me and help me up, nothing hurt and I know I didn't lose consciousness. But I've been depressed all day, not able to concentrate on anything substantial for long, and wonder if it's just that my brain got a bit shook up... even meditation hasn't lifted it. Well, perhaps a good night's sleep will help. How we worry, huh. Put me in your good thoughts anyhow...
Welcome to both Barbara and Colin...and a hearty "oh my goodness!" to Brenda. I hope a good night's sleep brings you back to proper form; in the meantime, try to take care of yourself, and watch your step...
Colin, here's a brief intro to Zen meditation that I regularly use with groups of beginners...but as Janice says, you probably already know more than you think...
http://tinyurl.com/88jdn
Ruth, I have no wisdom or experience when it comes to antidepressants, just an understanding of how devastating grief can be. Depression like all human emotions is a mystery...but if antidepressants can bring some solace, I don't see what would be wrong with that.
I didn't meditate yesterday, nor have I sat yet today. I'm scurrying to get some things done before I leave for Ireland tomorrow (woohoo!), so I suspect I won't be able to sit until I'm at the airport and/or on the plane, when I'll have plenty of quiet time to fill...
Welcome Colin! I heartily endorse Lorianne's instructions. I practice in the Tibetan tradition, which is quite different from her Korean Zen tradition, but we'd give virtually identical instructions for this.
12 Comments:
Ruth, oh, what you write about is so difficult, the challenges and tragedies life throws at us, I don't think anyone makes it through unscathed. But the loss of your baby and, it seems from your comment yesterday, perhaps having children at all, what a difficult precipice emotionally. I nearly didn't have children, finally marrying and having them at 35 and 38. But I realized that we all need to have children in our lives, and if I hadn't been able to have any biologically I would have made sure to have children some other way- overseas foster child (did that before meeting my husband, who's now my ex), working with children in school (a man I met this Summer, who is a violinist, and his son, who is a painter, actually go to schools and play and paint for students- a kind of performance, everyone loves it and they even get paid by the school board), and being a fabulous "aunt" to as many children as possible. My great aunt Jessie didn't have children, but she was everyone's "mother," who everyone went to when they needed encouragement, understanding, clear love. There's always the possibility of adopting a child too...
Though none of that undoes the grieving inside...
My heart is with you, and you're in my meditation. Much love.
I don't know how to meditate. But I'd like to learn. I found you through http://inkinmycoffee.blogspot.com
Colin, welcome! I'm afraid I don't feel qualified to respond to your question since I'm a relative newbie, too, but I'm sure someone here can and will. (Dale? Lorianne?)
((Mary)) I suspect that your 5-10 minutes is making a difference whether you see it or not. Progress continues while we continue the work. Sometimes it feels like two steps backward, but even that (IF it's the case) is part of the spiral of growth, I believe. Hang in there, friend!
Oh, Ruth, life throws some huge challenges sometimes. I say this while trying to learn how to accept the news I got last night that my friend's condition is beyond surgery. But your situation... I don't much care for meds, but I will say they have made a difference in my life. This time of year is particularly difficult for some. In my experience, resilience can wear down due to any number of factors, and the role meds play is as a support to increase that resilience a little so you can get back on your feet. Yes, there are other things that are very important: sleep, exercise, nutrition, loving social interaction, creative expression, and for me, meditation. Other small things like minimizing alcohol and coffee... It means searching for balance, but more than that, searching for tender loving care in/for every aspect of self so that you can be boosted back up. Also, there are many meds, and finding the right one can take a little time. But if it works, it works and the difference is worth it. No one deserves to feel miserable. Life is too short for that!!! (Yes, I just used three exclamation marks, and I meant it.)
I will add that the difference meditation has made for me seems to be not just in providing a sort of sanctuary (which it does) but also in training me to step away from my thoughts. Which is a skill that transfers over into daily life, enabling me to step away from my excessive ruminations or from my negative thoughts - not to hide feelings, that isn't helpful - but to then turn toward balanced feelings, gratitude, love, the present moment... Hope that makes sense.
Off to sit now.
Hi Colin and welcome
you know, I think you already know how to meditate
I read the first post on your blog, and you said you were, "listening to the darkness fold around you."
one of the first koans my teacher gave me was, "who is hearing?"
welcome colin, and lovely observation janice.
thank you for all your words. I am feeling a bit guilty about having got a bit emotional here but your support has been so welcome.
I am very interested in the possibility that it does not have to be an either/or situation - medication or meditation - and that medication can support a change. I can get very black and white and moralistic about things and all you write really helps me see the different shades. Something will have to be done one day about our love/bordering on abuse of wine as we lead our lives in the middle of the cotes du rhone....
sat for 15. Have found a lovely place at work to sit before the concert. It helps to really tune in to my listening (to the darkness fold around me) and I'm sure it does wonders against stage fright.
Must go and play now!
Ruth, I expect that as in most things everyone is different. But my experience has been that it's not all or nothing, that the meds did support change and can be stopped. I have had to recognize some vulnerabilities, however, and have learned to take care of myself a little differently. I imagine that what that care entails might be different for everyone, to be explored, to be learned as you go. I have to say, it's worth it.
For me, what anti-depressants do and what meditation (shamatha in particular) does are very similar -- they make the spin of my thoughts a little less tight and obsessive. But I still have to intervene cognitively -- neither one will just "fix" depression; they'll just make it possible to work on it. If there's something wrong with a car engine, just opening the hood won't fix it. But it's awfully damn hard to fix it with the hood closed :-)
Some people have absurd expectations for how quickly a deep grief should subside -- I remember someone admitting, with some shame, that he wasn't yet quite over the grief at his wife's miscarriage, which had happened all of two weeks ago. I told him (kindly I hope) that he was an idiot to expect to be.
But -- having said that -- my guess is that Julian is dealing with depression, and it's likely that meds could help. It's important to take depression seriously and head it off. If someone once has a really serious, debilitating depression, they're much more likely to have recurrences. So it's really worth preventing a first one. Trust me, it's a road you don't want to go on.
Some caveats. Most physicians, and many counsellors and psychologists, know virtually nothing about this pharmacology, they'll essentially throw a random dose of a random drug at you and send you away and hope it works. (Maybe France is better than America this way, I don't know.) Some of the drugs have a long ramp-up time -- think weeks, rather than days -- and some are very risky to suddenly discontinue. Dosages are very tricky, and a bit of a moving target. What this means is that you have to be aggressive and experimental (exactly what depressed people are worst at -- taking initiative and objectively assessing their condition.) Try one thing at one dosage for a couple weeks, and observe what happens. If it doesn't work, try another drug, or a different dosage, for a few weeks. Never take more than the recommended maximums -- if they're not doing it, it's just the wrong drug, that's all.
I think that depression is basically a cognitive disorder, and that it requires some effort to interrupt its obsessive thought-patterns and its distortions of perception. Drugs & meditation will make that easier, but they won't do it for you.
Sorry to dump this huge comment on y'all. I'm indignant about how badly depression is usually treated. There's really quite a bit known about how to treat it, and it responds well to skillful treatment -- but skillful treatment is not what it usually gets.
Early this morning, on the way to wake up my daughter, I tripped on something on her floor, and fell like an ironing board straight back and hit the back of my head on the carpet. Although I began crying for a little bit, so melodramatic, and she jumped out of bed to hug me and help me up, nothing hurt and I know I didn't lose consciousness. But I've been depressed all day, not able to concentrate on anything substantial for long, and wonder if it's just that my brain got a bit shook up... even meditation hasn't lifted it. Well, perhaps a good night's sleep will help. How we worry, huh. Put me in your good thoughts anyhow...
Welcome to both Barbara and Colin...and a hearty "oh my goodness!" to Brenda. I hope a good night's sleep brings you back to proper form; in the meantime, try to take care of yourself, and watch your step...
Colin, here's a brief intro to Zen meditation that I regularly use with groups of beginners...but as Janice says, you probably already know more than you think...
http://tinyurl.com/88jdn
Ruth, I have no wisdom or experience when it comes to antidepressants, just an understanding of how devastating grief can be. Depression like all human emotions is a mystery...but if antidepressants can bring some solace, I don't see what would be wrong with that.
I didn't meditate yesterday, nor have I sat yet today. I'm scurrying to get some things done before I leave for Ireland tomorrow (woohoo!), so I suspect I won't be able to sit until I'm at the airport and/or on the plane, when I'll have plenty of quiet time to fill...
Oh! Lorianne! Lucky you! Will you blog from Ireland? (Hope so!)
((Brenda)) Take good care of yourself.
Dale, I couldn't have said it more clearly.
{{{Brenda}}}
Welcome Colin! I heartily endorse Lorianne's instructions. I practice in the Tibetan tradition, which is quite different from her Korean Zen tradition, but we'd give virtually identical instructions for this.
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