just did 20 mins on the cello chair. Lovely and clear today. am enjoying having a neutral space...so many tugs at home. also, realised yesterday how much my experience in the orchestra has changed - I'm less pulled in by people's negativity and much more able to savour each moment of rehearsal, for whatever it is, even if it's concentrating on releasing my elbow. I think home and one's relationship with one's partner may be the last to really show the changes (does anyone find this to be true?) so this has been really encouraging.
Good morning, all! Second day, enjoying it but also slightly uneasy.
I have a question for the experts: I cannot find a truly relaxed sitting position. I simply can't do the half-lotus (yet), my legs don't bend that far, but I also haven't found a way to sit that doesn't bring some tightness somewhere.
If I sit with my spine & neck upright (as it feels) then there is a counterbalancing tightness in my upper thighs. I can even this out by moving my hands forward, from lap to just below the knees, but after a while this stresses my shoulders. If I sit so that my shoulders and thighs are relaxed, then my back isn't upright, and I get a stress in mid-back.
I'm sitting on a pillow on a folded quilt, in imitation of the photos in the DharmaCrafts page that Dale mentioned. Is this perhaps too soft, or the pillow as wedge not high enough?
Or is this just normal beginner's discomfort, to be ignored and overcome with practice?
Hi Udge, I think the answer to both your questions is yes - it will take a while to get comfortable with a sitting posture, as we don't normally sit with straight spine and no back support; and if you are feeling discomfort a soft cushion and quilt will not help - maybe you want to try sitting on a chair until you feel ready to splurge on a cushion and mat. it might be useful to get someone to check your posture and tell you if you are unconsciously tipping to one side or backwards or forwards - it's really common to feel like we are straight when we are actually not, but sitting at our most habitual angle. Don't sweat it - it'll come. You don't need to try too hard, just send warmth and kindness to the bit that feels stiff, every time you notice. I'm the most tense, stiff person you can imagine and I don't have a problem with this any more unless I sit for many hours on retreat.
Haven't sat for the past couple of days because of a horrible headache that teetered on the edge of migraine and was hard to shake off (I try to resist drugs - just essential oils peppermint and lavender applied to throbbing head). Dragged myself out for a walk in the cold air and that seemed to see it off. I know that spending six days a week on the pc isn't a great thing for human beings -I must try and get out everyday. Have made an appointment for some craniosacral therapy next week: I am hopeful that some skull and back manipulation will help - any of you experienced this?
Anyway, will do some meditation this evening (after the man who's fixing the central heating today has gorn).
Day off from work waiting for a delivery. Sat for about 15 mins.
Am in the middle of negotiating a new contract to do with where I live against the clock along with a couple of other people. Very stressful to put it mildly - nothing like stuff to do with the home to get the worrying going. However, for the last half of my meditation session this morning, rather to my surprise, I was peaceful and calm. That stopped once the meditation did, but nonetheless encouraging.
Udge: I'm no expert but I sit on the chair for now and have no problems with doing that - stiff hip joints and a bad knee mean that anything else is problematic. All I would say is give yourself time and space to find what works for you and I wouldn't be too demanding on yourself at this stage.
Anna: I'm a huge fan of craniosacral work. I don't get headaches so much but I have a very dodgy spine which responds beautifully to it. I find for me it works both on the physical and on other levels and can release blockages in a very gentle way. Good luck.
Hi all - have been doing my 20 mins and day and still enjoying it. This morning something a bit odd happened - I felt fine when I started sitting before lunch, and after about 5 mins my head started spinning and I had to open my eyes to stop it. I was paying attention to my breath so I don't think I wasn't breathing enough. Any ideas? Thanks!
Udge, I strongly suspect that you need to adjust your posture so that your knees are well below your hips. If you're sitting on the floor, that probably means stacking up more cushions (Choegyam Trungpa came up with cushions specifically for Westerners that are basically padded boxes standing six to eight inches high.) Whether you're sitting on cushions or on the floor, scoot forward so that you're sitting on the edge of whatever it is. The idea is to let your pelvis tip forward (which it won't do if your knees are as high as your hips, unless you're more flexible than most Westerners), so that your spine makes a nice S-curve. What you're doing, I suspect, is putting your spine into a shallow C-curve instead, which your thigh muscles will have to support.
We Westerners tend to think of "sitting up straight" as sucking in our bellies -- i.e. tilting our pelvises back and holding our shoulders up high by brute force. That's not what's needed here. Get your knees below your hips, by any means necessary, and let your belly go where it wants to. Then let your shoulders just hang.
You shouldn't have to be using the muscles in your thighs or shoulders at all -- if you're using them a lot it's pretty sure sign that your posture's out of whack.
Fiona, in both the Tibetan Buddhist and Zen traditions, meditation's usually done with the eyes open (or half-closed). See if that works for you. Some people cue their balance very visually -- you may be one of those, since you have such a vivid "eye consciousness." I have a friend who actually falls over backwards after five or ten minutes if he tries to meditate with his eyes closed!
Hi all. I sat this morning for 15-20 minutes. I am feeling more able in daily life to notice thoughts and let them go. Although by the end of the day things do pile up and I recognize it's harder then!
This is probably good timing to be developing this practice, after the last relationship and who knows when/who to come, where I might be in a better space, more healed, more present. Ain't easy.
Thanks Dale - I'll try that. Was just a bit perplexed as it's never happened to me before! After I settled back again a cat came and curled up on my lotus position-ed legs, which was warm but the purring was a bit distracting I think! will shut the door next time ;)
Ruth - interesting question about at what point change 'turns up' in your intimate relationships. My experience with other personal development has been that shifts have tended to happen in more 'distant' relationships first, e.g. friends I don't see very often... I guess that this is because this is a 'safer place' for difference to settle into first. Your different feelings about/rlp with the orchestra sounds very heartening.
I sat late last night on a chair ... first time ever and it felt very peculiar ... my knee has been acting up
After practicing zazen for 25 years in either half lotus or quarter lotus, the chair thing felt unsatisfying ... not grounded. I suppose I'll get used to it, and will persevere until the arthritis condition improves. Went to a seminar at the rec centre with a physiotherapist entitled "The Stable Knee" and learned some interesting stuff and some exercises to strengthen the muscles that support the knee joint.
Did appreciate reading comments from those of you who are chair sitters.
Hi everyone! It's so enjoyable to read all these comments.
Udge, I think Dale is right and that you're not up high enough. If I don't have my zafu, it works better for me to take firm seat cushions off a couch and put them on the floor rather than bed pillows or throw pillows, which are too soft. I also have a low, rectangular, upholstered stool that is about ten inches high. Sitting on the edge of something like that and letting your knees relax forward into a modified cross-legged posture works well, and you will feel more grounded, perhaps, than in a regular chair. Don't stress about it; you'll find the right way for you.
I haven't sat yet today but will do it between now and bedtime.
15 Comments:
morning y'all.
just did 20 mins on the cello chair. Lovely and clear today. am enjoying having a neutral space...so many tugs at home. also, realised yesterday how much my experience in the orchestra has changed - I'm less pulled in by people's negativity and much more able to savour each moment of rehearsal, for whatever it is, even if it's concentrating on releasing my elbow. I think home and one's relationship with one's partner may be the last to really show the changes (does anyone find this to be true?) so this has been really encouraging.
Off to the fitness romm with salif keita now!
Good morning, all! Second day, enjoying it but also slightly uneasy.
I have a question for the experts: I cannot find a truly relaxed sitting position. I simply can't do the half-lotus (yet), my legs don't bend that far, but I also haven't found a way to sit that doesn't bring some tightness somewhere.
If I sit with my spine & neck upright (as it feels) then there is a counterbalancing tightness in my upper thighs. I can even this out by moving my hands forward, from lap to just below the knees, but after a while this stresses my shoulders. If I sit so that my shoulders and thighs are relaxed, then my back isn't upright, and I get a stress in mid-back.
I'm sitting on a pillow on a folded quilt, in imitation of the photos in the DharmaCrafts page that Dale mentioned. Is this perhaps too soft, or the pillow as wedge not high enough?
Or is this just normal beginner's discomfort, to be ignored and overcome with practice?
Hi Udge, I think the answer to both your questions is yes - it will take a while to get comfortable with a sitting posture, as we don't normally sit with straight spine and no back support; and if you are feeling discomfort a soft cushion and quilt will not help - maybe you want to try sitting on a chair until you feel ready to splurge on a cushion and mat. it might be useful to get someone to check your posture and tell you if you are unconsciously tipping to one side or backwards or forwards - it's really common to feel like we are straight when we are actually not, but sitting at our most habitual angle. Don't sweat it - it'll come. You don't need to try too hard, just send warmth and kindness to the bit that feels stiff, every time you notice. I'm the most tense, stiff person you can imagine and I don't have a problem with this any more unless I sit for many hours on retreat.
Hello all.
Haven't sat for the past couple of days because of a horrible headache that teetered on the edge of migraine and was hard to shake off (I try to resist drugs - just essential oils peppermint and lavender applied to throbbing head). Dragged myself out for a walk in the cold air and that seemed to see it off. I know that spending six days a week on the pc isn't a great thing for human beings -I must try and get out everyday. Have made an appointment for some craniosacral therapy next week: I am hopeful that some skull and back manipulation will help - any of you experienced this?
Anyway, will do some meditation this evening (after the man who's fixing the central heating today has gorn).
Happy sitting to you all,
Anna.
Day off from work waiting for a delivery. Sat for about 15 mins.
Am in the middle of negotiating a new contract to do with where I live against the clock along with a couple of other people. Very stressful to put it mildly - nothing like stuff to do with the home to get the worrying going. However, for the last half of my meditation session this morning, rather to my surprise, I was peaceful and calm. That stopped once the meditation did, but nonetheless encouraging.
Udge: I'm no expert but I sit on the chair for now and have no problems with doing that - stiff hip joints and a bad knee mean that anything else is problematic. All I would say is give yourself time and space to find what works for you and I wouldn't be too demanding on yourself at this stage.
Anna: I'm a huge fan of craniosacral work. I don't get headaches so much but I have a very dodgy spine which responds beautifully to it. I find for me it works both on the physical and on other levels and can release blockages in a very gentle way. Good luck.
Hi all - have been doing my 20 mins and day and still enjoying it. This morning something a bit odd happened - I felt fine when I started sitting before lunch, and after about 5 mins my head started spinning and I had to open my eyes to stop it. I was paying attention to my breath so I don't think I wasn't breathing enough. Any ideas? Thanks!
Udge, I strongly suspect that you need to adjust your posture so that your knees are well below your hips. If you're sitting on the floor, that probably means stacking up more cushions (Choegyam Trungpa came up with cushions specifically for Westerners that are basically padded boxes standing six to eight inches high.) Whether you're sitting on cushions or on the floor, scoot forward so that you're sitting on the edge of whatever it is. The idea is to let your pelvis tip forward (which it won't do if your knees are as high as your hips, unless you're more flexible than most Westerners), so that your spine makes a nice S-curve. What you're doing, I suspect, is putting your spine into a shallow C-curve instead, which your thigh muscles will have to support.
We Westerners tend to think of "sitting up straight" as sucking in our bellies -- i.e. tilting our pelvises back and holding our shoulders up high by brute force. That's not what's needed here. Get your knees below your hips, by any means necessary, and let your belly go where it wants to. Then let your shoulders just hang.
You shouldn't have to be using the muscles in your thighs or shoulders at all -- if you're using them a lot it's pretty sure sign that your posture's out of whack.
oops, that should have been "whether you're sitting on cushions or on a chair."
Fiona, in both the Tibetan Buddhist and Zen traditions, meditation's usually done with the eyes open (or half-closed). See if that works for you. Some people cue their balance very visually -- you may be one of those, since you have such a vivid "eye consciousness." I have a friend who actually falls over backwards after five or ten minutes if he tries to meditate with his eyes closed!
Oh yeah, and I did sit yesterday, though I left it late. Five minutes' sitting & 14 accumulations.
Don't miss Soen Joon's last comment yesterday. (Or today. Or whatever. I never have really gotten the hang of the fact that the world's round.)
Hi all. I sat this morning for 15-20 minutes. I am feeling more able in daily life to notice thoughts and let them go. Although by the end of the day things do pile up and I recognize it's harder then!
This is probably good timing to be developing this practice, after the last relationship and who knows when/who to come, where I might be in a better space, more healed, more present. Ain't easy.
Thanks Dale - I'll try that. Was just a bit perplexed as it's never happened to me before! After I settled back again a cat came and curled up on my lotus position-ed legs, which was warm but the purring was a bit distracting I think! will shut the door next time ;)
Ruth - interesting question about at what point change 'turns up' in your intimate relationships. My experience with other personal development has been that shifts have tended to happen in more 'distant' relationships first, e.g. friends I don't see very often... I guess that this is because this is a 'safer place' for difference to settle into first. Your different feelings about/rlp with the orchestra sounds very heartening.
I sat late last night on a chair ... first time ever and it felt very peculiar ... my knee has been acting up
After practicing zazen for 25 years in either half lotus or quarter lotus, the chair thing felt unsatisfying ... not grounded. I suppose I'll get used to it, and will persevere until the arthritis condition improves. Went to a seminar at the rec centre with a physiotherapist entitled "The Stable Knee" and learned some interesting stuff and some exercises to strengthen the muscles that support the knee joint.
Did appreciate reading comments from those of you who are chair sitters.
Bows
Hi everyone! It's so enjoyable to read all these comments.
Udge, I think Dale is right and that you're not up high enough. If I don't have my zafu, it works better for me to take firm seat cushions off a couch and put them on the floor rather than bed pillows or throw pillows, which are too soft. I also have a low, rectangular, upholstered stool that is about ten inches high. Sitting on the edge of something like that and letting your knees relax forward into a modified cross-legged posture works well, and you will feel more grounded, perhaps, than in a regular chair. Don't stress about it; you'll find the right way for you.
I haven't sat yet today but will do it between now and bedtime.
p.s. -- and Ruth, yeah, it's the last place where you feel the spaciousness - but it *will* help at home too.
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